Healing Our Childless Self: Interview With Julie Forbes

How do we forgive? How do we fall back in love with ourselves? And what do Julie Forbes and Maria Shriver have in common? Listen, and find out.

Linda met Julie in a Facebook group called Childless Not By Choice. A vibrant community where the ache in your heart, triggers, or otherness can be expressed in the safest of ways.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/344118628954828

What they found out that had in common was a desire to see themselves as whole, regardless of past trauma specifically related to how they missed out on Motherhood. We all have a story, but you won't want to miss this one!

Julie tells her "It Happened to Me" story with grace and humor, and shares what tools helped her heal. Inside: How she tried to make it happen, how she made the bold moves to reinvent herself, how she recognized the healing she still needed, and how she found love again-- both with her fiancé and with her Little Sister.

Here's the Thing: As your Sisters in the Otherhood, we want you to know that healing is possible, suffering is optional, and finding joy in your life is always possible. 

Transcript

Linda: 0:07

Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. This is Ladies Like Us and I'm your host, Linda Leising. How do we forgive? How do we fall back in love with ourselves? And what do Julie Forbes and Maria Shriver have in common? Listen, and find out. Today we are welcoming Julie Forbes, my newly found sister in the other hood. Julie story is both fascinating and multifaceted. In her current chapter, she is a bride to be preparing for her wedding. She is a big sister to a wonderful young woman through the big brother, big sister program. And she is an aunt many times over Julie.

Julie: 1:58

It's wonderful to have you sure, Linda, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoy being here. Um, I am originally from the suburbs of Philadelphia. And I was getting divorced and I moved out to California where I will never have to shovel snow again.

Linda: 2:16

Amen.

Julie: 2:17

Uh, so I've been living out in California for 20 years and I've actually basically started my whole life over and I'm very happy where I am now, but it was a long struggle. To get here. And, um, I was first married in 1993 to a gentleman in Pennsylvania. Uh, he and I were married for about seven years. And in the course of that seven years, I had three miscarriages and it was, uh, going through some doctors and things and figuring out tests. Um, it was basically, I found out that my estrogen levels were really low. So as soon as I got pregnant, I would have to take a pill to help my estrogen levels to keep the baby. And I went six weeks the first time, 12 weeks, the second time and nine weeks, the third time. So after the third miscarriage, I got the prescription to get my medicine to take. If and when, my husband and I. Decided to start again. And just as I was going to take that medicine, that is when I found out some really horrible news that my ex-husband, um, had a baby and he cheated on me with his secretary and I'm doing air quotes because it's so typical that he had an affair with his secretary and got her pregnant. So I was

Linda: 3:51

So how old was the child when you found out?

Julie: 3:54

The child was four and you'd been married? How long at the time we were married six years. So I guess if you do the math two years into my marriage, he had the affair and you know, I'm a very, very, uh, I don't even know what the word I want to say. Like. I, I just let you do what you want to do. Um, I think independence is still a good thing in a marriage. Um, do you do, and then we come back circle around and we come and do things together. So, you know, I didn't really care and keep track of a hundred percent of money. Um, I know that wasn't. Always my main focus, but it was a productive focus when you had to pay the bills and things like that. So, you know, I had a special account, he had an account and then we had our mutual account. So basically what I'm getting to is that he was paying child support behind my back in an account that I couldn't see, which was probably maybe my own fault from the very beginning of a marriage. But anyway, so he was paying child support behind my back for four years as well. Wow. So it was pretty devastating to find that out. And, and, uh, so that's when I left, I stayed around for about three months back in Pennsylvania, told my family, told my sisters and I confronted him and his family. And sadly, his father knew all about it because his father said he had a garnish his wages because he worked for his father. So off I went. And I moved to California for about a month and my older sister was really sweet. She said, you know, this is when she said, come out and live with me for a month, get your life together, figure out what you want to do. And you'll never have to shovel snow again. Oh, that's a good thought, right?

Linda: 5:42

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie: 5:43

Soothing thought thought. Um, and I've been out at various times. Visiting my sister in California, which was lovely and her husband and, and the children. So it was really nice to see my nieces and nephews again, excuse me, my two nieces. So I came out here for a month and I really liked it. And then about six months into it, my ex-husband to be here at the time we were separated. He said let's fly and meet and talk because I don't want to give you up. And I'm so sorry for what happened. And I want nothing to do with this child. And, you know, as a, as a human being, I thought, how can you not acknowledge your child? You know, like, how can you just put it aside? It wasn't a car, you know, we weren't buying a car and you know what happens then when you and I have children, how. How are we going to say this exactly right. So I did meet him and I gave him some parameters. Like you start a new job, you know, we move and you become involved in this child's life. Like there's, there's no way that we cannot not do this. And if you want. If you know, you and I decide to have children again, or we can have children again, then this is like a huge thing we need to talk about. Well, anyway, after you think of the reality of it, and, and after having a weekend with him, I flew back to California and I, you know, I really thought about it and I thought, you know what, no, I'm not going to make parameters for his mistakes. Like, this is not what I want. So I divorced him a year and a half later, and then I ended up. Uh, buying my first home single as a single woman buying my home, which was really a huge achieved knife. Thank you. And then I got a new job and I made new friends and then I did what any other single gal, 35 years old would do and go California.

Linda: 7:50

Yeah.

Julie: 7:51

Um, you know, just having loads and loads and loads of fun and.

Linda: 7:56

I thought that was amazing.

Julie: 7:58

It amazing. Yeah. It was amazing. And it was dating all kinds of wrong men, which I think especially

Linda: 8:05

your privilege to do right. You need to. Yeah.

Julie: 8:09

So

Linda: 8:09

your oats, I hope you had a great time. You

Julie: 8:12

know, I had a great time, but I also had a really sad time too, because I was, you know, 38, 30, nine, 40. I'm like, Ooh, am I going to have kids or not? Or is this gonna happen again? And, um, You know, and then I had a lot of trauma with what happened to me. Um, yeah. Was that immediate

Linda: 8:32

or did it take a while for it to kind of settle as trauma, like

Julie: 8:36

took a, it took a while and I would say about maybe 10 years into it. And then I realized that this was really bad and he was making really bad choices with men. So I think I didn't want to get close. But which I knew deep down in my heart, I really wanted to and get married again and see what it was like to have a real quote unquote marriage. Um, so I ended up going, and this is one thing I wanted to tell you too. And I'm really glad because this may help other women who have different circumstances, however, you become not childless, not by choice. Um, I went to a PTST therapist and it was really, really amazing and she actually. Did this EMDR therapy where you hold these vibrating wands in your hand and they will enter intermittently vibrate. And she will ask you a question about something that really hurts you and you just close your eyes. And for three minutes, your left hand will buzz. Then your right hand will buzz. Then your left hand will buzz and you'd be surprised how. All of this emotion comes out and you just either start sobbing or you start laughing. And it's amazing how this brings out the emotions and it's basically a release and it makes your brain remember this trauma. Then the next time she does it in the same sitting, like you have the same, um, uh, Appointment then she'll ask you a happy question and you do the same thing. And for three minutes, it'll be the left hand right hand. And then your emotions come out. And I went to her for about, maybe I would say about 10 sessions and it really, really, really helped me. It really, really helps me. Yeah, that

Linda: 10:39

sounds amazing. No, I, I know, you know, we, we store so much in the body and I can sort of see, I can almost see myself had I gone through what you went through, you know, I have this I'm soldiering on mentality. Like I can, kind of be strong and whatever, but sometimes like that, it's almost like once I'm in the safe place, then it's like that trauma washes over me and it's like, Oh, you know what I mean? And, and it really can take you, um, By surprise. But sometimes I think it grows over a little much. Right. And you don't even realize how much it, like it becomes part of your subconscious programming. And then again, the relationships you create and how you live your life are drastically affected.

Julie: 11:20

So for sure. And the other thing too is my mother was always the real strong woman that says, you know, pull up your bootstraps, kind of you take teachings. And basically sometimes, you know what, mom pulling up my bootstraps. Doesn't really help. It's not, it's not going to get me in here. I mean, it's one thing to be strong and be a fighter, which is what I think I have been on these whole past 17 years now. So after I do the, um, EMDR therapy, I stopped dating and I became true to myself. And that was one of the things that I taught. And one of the things that my therapist said. Or the last thing I said to my therapist on our last session, where I felt very confident that I could move on without needing advice. Um, I said, thank you for letting me be, not become the woman that I used to be, but becoming the woman that I needed to be. And that was the biggest thing is that I really realized it's his problem. It was his issue. I had nothing to do with it and I stopped dating. I made tons of friends. I went to the beach, I read books. I volunteered for habitat for humanity. I did a lot of fun things. I volunteered at an animal shelter. Um, I joined a photography group cause I love photography and I, you know, we'd go out shooting every weekend and I just became fun with me and I kinda liked me. You know, I, I, I want to date me. I thought, well, yes, yes. And I wasn't doing it. Yeah. Purpose for like, when people say, Oh, when you're not looking, you find someone that wasn't it at all. I was finding my peace to finally let go and be like, it was your problem. I had nothing to do with this. And that was the thing I think that released me from it. So then, uh, years went on and I was just having fun and I was dating really nice guys then. Um, and I actually did get a wedding proposal from one gentleman and I

Linda: 13:23

sadly said, no,

Julie: 13:27

sorry, I'm not ready. One day my girlfriend said, Hey, go on Tinder. I'm like, Oh my gosh, what is that app? Like what a dating another dating app. I don't know. So I did. And sure enough, I met actually now my new love of my life and we've been together five years. Uh, we've been engaged for two. Uh, we would have been married a little bit sooner except for our lovely COVID while I was dating him. One of the things that I wanted to do was if I wasn't going to have children at this point. Okay. So now I'm 57. We were 54 when I met. My fiance. I went through menopause. I did all that stuff and I realized, okay, um, I, you know, I made peace with it. I'm never going to have children of my own. And he and I are just not in filling to adopt. Uh, we've already talked about that before, you know, we got engaged and things like that. And he is, uh, has never been married before either. And he doesn't have children. So I said, you know, I want to change somebody's life. I want to help somebody. And that's when I just started to do, I joined big brothers, big sisters of America, and I joined the big brothers, big sisters, Santa Cruz, California chapter. And I, met this little woman, which I'm not gonna say her name. Um, and she's 16 now. And I met her when she was 13. We've been together for three years and she is just lovely. And I mentor her on mentor her and. You know, people say, Julia, you're doing such a great thing and you're changing somebody's life. And honestly, I think she's changing mine.

Linda: 15:06

Oh yeah. I'm

Julie: 15:08

sure sweet. And she's in our wedding. Our wedding is this June a couple of months. I'm so excited. And then the other thing that we're doing is we are going back in July to visit my family in Pennsylvania. And we treated my little and she's coming with us. And she's never been to New York city, so we're going to take her to New York. I know she's so excited and she absolutely loves to read and lives to read. Like she constantly texts me all these books that she's reading. And she said my fantasy and the, she told me this fantasy about six, seven, eight months ago. She's like, I really want to go to the New York library. Wouldn't it be amazing. So I told her, I say, guess what? We're taking you to the New York library. She was like,

Linda: 15:57

that's true. It's working out. Oh my God. And, um, can I just say, if someone called me my little, I would just die. That's that's the tenderest most beautiful.

Julie: 16:10

Beautiful. Yes. That's what we're called on the big. And she's the little, and we actually have necklaces that we got from Christmas one time from her mother. That says I'm the big sister and her SIS on the little sister, but, yeah, it's a really great program. So that's another thing. The reason why I wanted to be on this podcast was because for women who are single, where I never wanted to have a baby single, uh, which is also a choice, uh, for women that maybe would want to help, or I totally feel like if it filled me. And the reason why I also say that is because I have nine nieces and nephews. And I feel like with my little, she technically really only belongs to me if you get what I mean, like, I don't share her with my sister. So she was like responsibility, even though she has a mom, I get it. But I mean, when she's with me, she's like my full responsibility. Not that like, if I'm stuck with my niece and my niece is having a meltdown. I can call my, my sister and be like, Hey, you know, XYZ is mountain town. What do I do? Like here, I need to do it and I need to solve it.

Linda: 17:22

I love that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm I was speaking with another, interviewee and, she was talking about

Julie: 17:28

the transformation through

Linda: 17:31

motherhood. Right. And so she was contrasting herself with her. Uh, best friend who wanted the experience of, carrying the child, like birthing. And she wanted to, be on the other side of that. But, my friend said that that was never the thing for her, but she wanted the transformation of, bonding and just being a part of a child's life. And so she, she fostered for some time, but yeah, it's, it's, um, It's a really interesting thing, in your case, entering the age that you entered her life is, uh, significant too. So yeah. I love that you created that space for yourself. I want to know more about

Julie: 18:07

that actually actually, well, the big sisters, big brothers program, um, when you sign up, anyone can sign up, um, you have to get interviewed and they do a background check on you. Um, of course, uh, you have to give three references. And when you get chosen and they let you into the program, you can also state what age range you would like to have. For instance, I think they start at eight years old and I think they go up to 16, not a hundred percent sure on the age range, but I wanted to have someone like 14 or 15. Um, and the other parameter is once you commit and you get three. Candidates first. And you have a, um, I forget the name of the woman that speak to, or the man that you speak to a brother speaks. Oh. And your case, your, your case study, I guess your case, they will give you three choices and then you read through them. And they'll give you the background of the child, how old the child is, what the child is, uh, where they live some sort of background on any medical background or any physical background or any mental issues or things like that. Because mostly children that are put into this program. Or put in because his parents are a single parent and they work all the time and they don't have time to spend time with their children. And a lot of the times they come from dysfunctional families and they just need support from other people to help their children. And, uh, it's also a year commitment and you have to see them four times a month and it could be like an hour or two hours, but you commit four times a month and then. You can also have a sleep over after a year. Like if you to continue the relationship and you like renew the relationship, I guess that's what it's called. Um, after one year you can have two sleepovers a year anyway, after a year and a half, two years. Um, she got older and she started playing volleyball and she was, you know, busy with her friends and she would, you know, didn't want to have time really to spend like a good two, three hours with me, whatever. So, and I also too, was getting, I got promoted at work and I was getting really busy with work and I just didn't have the time all the time. And, and we ended up deciding together and talking to her mother that we removed ourselves from big brothers, big sisters. Okay. And she says, To me, Julie, why can't we just be friends forever? And I just started crying. I'm like, I know I am going to be friends with you forever. And I just became really close with her mother. And I met her sisters because you're not allowed to meet other people. Um, you're only allowed to be with your little, and then she met my fiance and she met my dog. It was cute. Um, and now we're best friends and now we just like text each other all the time. And I actually go out with her mother. Her mother is my age. So now I became good friends with her mom and, uh, yeah, it's a really great program. But, um, the other thing, Linda, I really want your listeners to understand that in the past couple of months though, my friend had a baby and it really bothered me. I don't know why, like it really, really bothered me and I didn't want to see the baby pictures. And actually my niece had a baby. And that really bothered me. So then I realized, okay, wait a minute. Why is this really bothering me? And I really, I cried and cried and cried and I was really upset. And then this is what happened, was how you and I met. I thought I need to get some help. And I guess I pushed this feeling under the rug way too long. And I feel like I spent 20 years healing my heart. I didn't spend. Anytime healing. My child was self. Wow. That's where you and I are now. Right? That's how we met. Yeah. I ended up, um, joining, um, a childless. What was it called? Childless by choice, right? Not

Linda: 22:24

Childless Not By Choice. Not by choice.

Julie: 22:26

Yeah. And I do a lot of meditation. I do a lot of reading self-help um, I go on Facebook to the group a lot and it's been wonderful. So, this is where I am, and this is why I'm doing this podcast to tell women that no matter what your journey is eventually, or hopefully some things will get better. And then to, to acknowledge things and find things to help yourself.

Linda: 22:57

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think that community just becomes so important, for us and. It's a certain kind of grief and heartbreak. Right. And like your journey is amazing. You, you were so brave and healed yourself and fell back in love with yourself. And, you know, really just came home to yourself was, was incredible. And you can be all those things, right? You're such a catch. Come on. You found this wonderful man. I mean, and, and, and yeah, sometimes this wound gets reopened and it's something that even as I, I coach and coach myself, um, you know, I acknowledge that there'll be this wave. That hits me sometime. Right.

Julie: 23:43

And,

Linda: 23:44

um, I'll never have this like little, little hand, you know, on my body, like kids to the, you know, and I just think about, I think about this physical proximity that I'll never have. And I know moms get crazy. Right. They're like, God, these kids are always touching me. And then, you know, and I hear that a lot and I'm like, I know in my baby sister was like that. She was like all over me and I'm just like, God, I'll never have. That part of me that is, is here and I get to meet it. Right. So it's a special, it's a special kind of heartbreak. And I think we, you and I talked about this, you know, when I, um, when I was married, I mean, I got married a little bit later and my mom made fun of me. She was like, whatever, old man, old lady wedding. And I was like, Thirty-five, I'm like, yeah, well, I'm sorry. I didn't marry the love of my life at 21. And, I mean, you know, it's just who can say, right? Like, like when we meet in our fertility, sometimes doesn't meet up with our, our heart, our maturity, our, um, whatever journey we're on. And it's hard. There's no getting around that, but I think when we focus on what we have. A and B don't discount, this energy that we have.Sharing it with your nieces and nephews, doubling

Julie: 24:58

down on family or again, creating that relationship that's

Linda: 25:02

for you, which I love, I love that you said that actually, because I kind of feel that way. Like I want to have that, that special bond and not feel like I have to share that with somebody else sometimes. You know, so yeah. I may be hitting you up with more information on that program. You know, I think I I've felt a lot of those beats. At the same time. And I think that for me, I think, when you were saying about the 38 40, I remember this distinct feeling of like the castle Gates are closing, it's like an action movie and I just want to like, do that last running jump to get under there. And it just feels like you see every celebrity somehow magically get pregnant at 42 and just starts to feel. I first hopeful and then it feels like, wow, it happens to everyone, but me and I think that when we found that group, it was a really great place to really just, I mean, just let it out. Yeah. Worst feelings, like maybe feeling a little victimized by our life circumstances, whatever it is, but feeling our feelings right. In a space that felt safe, but it's nice to move from that place too. And look forward to other joys.

Julie: 26:13

One of the things that I had a conversation with, my fiance, which I love saying that word, that's such a good word. That's a good word. We went for a walk on the beach a couple of weeks ago, and I was telling him how much better I feel because I have women that I can relate to now that people I'm not the only one. And I said, one of the things that I really want to get back to is when I was 16. I remember my sister telling me she had her baby and I couldn't wait to get in the car and drive to the hospital, which was only 20 minutes away to see my niece. And her name is Jennifer and she was the cutest little thing. And then my brother had kids and my sisters had kids and now I'm like 18, 19, 20. And. All my brothers and sisters are having children. I'm so excited. I can't wait to hold them. My other sister had twins and I was auntie Julie and I'm babysitting and I'm picking up diapers and doing tons of stuff and he was so happy. So got wrenchingly happy. Then I have this other life now where I have betrayal. I have hurt. I have miscarriages. I have doom and gloom in my mind. I have gray cloud. I'm miserable. I'm so sad. And then people tell me they had a baby. I'm like, I don't care.

Linda: 27:40

Carrie had a baby, like I'm

Julie: 27:42

so mad. And that's where I said to David. I wish I can't wait to get back to the point of where I was when I was 16, when somebody would tell me, Oh, I just had a baby or I'm pregnant. And be really genuinely happy for them because I suppressed this feeling for so long that it's time to let it go. It's okay. To let it go. It's okay. That my world happened the way it did and enjoy the rest of my life. The way I can have it. And it's getting better. It's actually getting better. I'm getting a lot happier with the fact that when somebody says, Oh, I'm pregnant, you know, and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so happy for you because I really am. I'm getting there and that's not always easy to do, but I don't want to be selfish anymore. And I feel like that's what I have been at some points to myself. Like Juul, let it go. It's okay. You're going to be okay.

Linda: 28:38

No, that's, that's really, um, that's really profound And I'm wondering, like, what do you think is in that last stretch to get you

Julie: 28:47

there? Um, I think my last stretch was forgiveness to my ex-husband to really forgive and say that's okay. That, that, that, that happened. That was your choice. That was. You're doing not mine and forgive myself. And the other thing, which I don't know if this has any correlation, but I, um, would cheat and smoke cigarettes now. And then, and I also started nicotine anonymous because I'm really done with cheating and I've been gone now technically 30 days today without nicotine. And usually I would be cheating or light up and. Every two weeks, you know, buy a pack of cigarettes, have three or four wet them and throw them out. And this was going on for years. And I also feel like that correlation of quitting smoking, smoking, and really being happier has really helped my mindset because I don't have this great club. And I feel like I was always so depressed about not having children, but I smoked all the time. Hmm. I really set my goal. To be a healthier person and not to be having an addiction to nicotine, which is very hard to quit. I've joined nicotine anonymous. I go to meetings and I really feel like everything is now becoming calmer. And I'm truly at peace for the first time since I started smoking at 14 years old. Wow. So it's like a twofold thing. I'm admitting my hurt for not having children and learning to let other. Love of that in my life.

Linda: 30:32

That's amazing. Uh, you know, um, I just hear such strength in your voice as you say that. And, you know, it's interesting. I had a journey with nicotine as well and, it's interesting because I knew that I was. So I didn't use it so much to like, when out, usually it wasn't like a stressed out thing for me, it was like a reward. Right. But nonetheless, it was still a buffer, there was something where, I think like people who like overeat or smoke or, there's a sense of, um, you want to change your state, so maybe you have a feeling and you don't even register the thought that you're having a negative thought. Sometimes you just reach for the thing, because that's now your, your, loop. And it's. Really, uh, an amazing thing to just so I finally just don't need it or want it anymore, you know, but it was really tied to this identity that I had of like young, like I'm carefree and I can do this if I want, you know what I mean? And nothing wrong, like, Sitting on my stoop in New York and having a smoke, it was so romantic, you know, and I'm romantic and whatever. Um, it's like, no, you know what? Like I get to be all that without the cigarette, you know? And yeah. And the other thing is just, kind of not buffering against. Your feelings, like you're not trying to cloud them and said, you're just, you feel them and through is the best way. Right. And I just hear that you, um, really, you've just done such deep work to find the forgiveness, find, find your strength, but find your vulnerability too.

Julie: 32:03

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Good.

Linda: 32:06

Well, your journey really is amazing, You're marriage and that whole, um, betrayal, I mean, if we were reading a book, right, there would be such a if we were in book club, we could discuss that and think about the strange significance of, having miscarriages. Meanwhile, this other woman is carrying the child that should have been in this carriage, right? Like, yeah, I'm sorry. I was, I'm a literature major. So we would totally unpack that as

Julie: 32:31

symbolic. Right? Speaking of that too really quickly, I wrote a letter to. Um, Arnold Schwarzenegger's wife, because remember that scandal? Yes. Yes.

Linda: 32:46

Oh my gosh. Shriver.

Julie: 32:48

I wrote to her because I was like, Oh my God, it happens too. It happens to celebrities too. Like, it just doesn't happen to me. So she never wrote back, which I really thought she was going to write back. Um, that's when he was governor at the time of California and about a month to now, I don't know, a couple of months ago. I was in Santa Barbara with my fiance. We were visiting his family and I was in this really pretty home, uh, boutique store. And who do I run into, but re but Maria Shriver. Oh my God. I pulled her aside as, excuse me. I said, I know you don't know me from Adam. I said, but I wrote to you once because we have the same story. And she went, we do. And what, like, like what, what are you talking about? And she was with two other women who were dressed to the nines. Let me tell you right now, the two other women are looking at me like, why is this woman talking to me, talking to my friend? And I told her, I said, well, I just wanna let you know what happened to you with our not happened to me too, with my ex-husband. And he had the kid. You had a child and she just went, Oh, thank you for saying that. And that's all she said. And she gave me like a really quick hug. Like we just kind of like hugged really quick. And then she walked away. I

Linda: 34:03

was like, Oh

Julie: 34:04

my God, I just really talked to Maria Shriver. So, you know, it's really, I think that's another thing was when you have someone that you, that the same as X story has happened too, I think you also feel better cause you feel like you're not alone.

Linda: 34:18

Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, it's funny. Yeah. Thinking about, you know, in us magazine, they're like celebrities, they're just like us and it's always like some something silly. Right. But no, but to your point, I mean, yeah, you can be all the things, right. So, you know, I think it absolves you of any, like you not-good-enough-nessor whatever, that, that you may have been carrying because it's like, Arnold did a thing. He did it bad thing, and it didn't have anything to do with Maria. And the quality of womanhood. So, yeah. Wow. No, that's, um, that's a, that's a really cool thing to happen though. I mean, I think it sounds like all these cool little, nudges from the universe is it's, it's all about getting you here and, you know, in the now and in your joy, so

Julie: 35:06

yeah. Yeah. So,

Linda: 35:11

um, any parting words for ladies like us?

Julie: 35:16

Um, the only parting words I would say is just keep thinking that you're, I don't want to say, keep thinking. Know, that you are good. You are who you are. You, your life is the way it needed to be panned out and maybe there's a different path for you and that's okay. The Otherhood is just as fabulous. And there's so many passions and other things that you can do to help yourself. Like you can start a business or you can be a big brother, big sister, you can be a foster parent and it's okay to not have children. It's really okay. And you're going to be okay.

Linda: 35:58

Mm, thank you for that

Julie: 36:02

St. Ladies.

Linda: 36:03

We're here in the other hood, ready to hang out whenever you'd like. Um, Julie is planning her wedding, which I

Julie: 36:12

can't wait for her to finally do the

Linda: 36:15

deed. And, um, yeah. And I hope to have you on the show again, but in the meantime,

Julie: 36:21

we wish you the best. Thank you very, very much. And everyone please take good care of yourself. Be safe. And try to find your joy.